Episode 16:
Wildlings

Welcome to the Screen Sanity Podcast. Today we are talking to Nikki Farrell, who is the co-founder of Wildlings Forest School. Wildlings is one of my favorite organizations in Australia, so we are so excited to have her here today, and Wildling has now been going for nine years, which is such a great amount of time, and we are just so.

Thankful that you guys are doing this Great work. Nikki, can you start by telling us why did you start Wild Lanes? Uh, partly accidental and partly serendipitous. I guess. I, um, was trying out a playgroup with my now business partner, Vicki, and I thought it was probably going to be too hippie for me, which is hilarious looking back now.

But I’d tried a couple of playgroups and they were indoors, very structured. And I just realized that my youngest boy at the time needed more movement. He just needed more movement. And then when he was in flow in his play, he needed to be left there. And I’m not talking about a child that had behavior support needs or additional needs, just a regular child that needed to move and stay in their play.

And I wasn’t finding it. And then I went to Vicky’s playgroup and I just had this aha moment. I went, why aren’t all playgroup. Outdoors where there’s no fluorescent lights and there’s lots of space to move and run and there’s no resources to argue over ’cause there’s plenty of leaves and sticks and it went from there.

So it’s, uh, that’s, there’s so many reasons. Oh, that’s, I can relate so much to that because as a parent of four kids and. Obviously the co-founder of Screen Sanity, I find nature is the total antidote to screen use and just personally forget the screen conversation. It’s the easiest place to parent. Like if you take your kids outside with other kids especially.

Um, it’s just everyone benefits. It’s such a place where everyone can, you know, feel just. At ease because it’s easier there. And like you said, there’s nothing to fight over. There’s mm-hmm. And their imaginations go wild. So I have always, yeah, had the exact same experience. I feel like there was a couple of epiphanies in about a six month period as well.

I was a high school teacher at the time. Teaching year 11 and 12 men, let’s be honest, they’re taller than me and beards and I’ve worked out, ’cause I’m an English PE teacher by trade. If I took them out to throw the footy for five to 10 minutes before an English class, they were more settled, they were more engaged.

There were no behavior issues. But if I took them straight in, particularly in the afternoon, they were, for a better term, pity. You know, they just had the worms in them and they needed to move. Even though they’d just been out, they might not have been moving, or they might not have actually been out in the sunshine.

They might have been on their phones or they might have been in the library. So, you know, I saw that happen. And then my son at the time, we’d just moved house and then my youngest was. Not even two years old and was suffering from night terrors. When we moved house, he kept saying, I want to leave this hotel.

I want to go home. And the only thing that would stop them at 3:00 AM am in the morning was to go outside and to get his cheeks in the breeze. And I just kept thinking, gosh, there’s something more to this. It’s, it really is as simple as taking them outside. So that’s where we went. That’s so good. And it’s reassuring to hear that.

Other people think like this at the moment. Our schedule is just crazy with school activities and everything happening afterwards, and I’m trying to figure out, you know, the homework slot and it’s right after school. And my instant reaction is, but when are we gonna go outside? We can’t possibly. Get to school, have a whole school day, and then we have a sport at four 30.

I’m like, we need outside time before we can do the homework, and I don’t know how to fit it in. So it’s nice that other people are thinking like that. Yeah, it it is crazy, isn’t it? We are the most overscheduled over goodbyes generation. This, the children that we’re raising right now have never been more directly supervised in their lives.

So it’s not even. Nature, absolutely. But it’s also that unsupervised free play. And by unsupervised what I mean is there’s not someone hovering, helping them make decisions every second or telling them to be careful every second. They need to learn to make decisions and risk assess for themselves in a safe environment.

So how can we do that where it’s not just soccer training, great. That they’re outside. That’s wonderful. They’re still getting fresh air and they’re still getting. Movement and sunlight, but when do they get to just be themselves and process their emotions from the day in a safe environment? It’s hard. It is very hard.

Um, so we could talk for hours about every one of these things. So can you, for our listeners today, um, just broadly speak to what you know about Yeah. This kind of like lack of nature and lack of just freedom and. Downtime, like all grouped into one. Um, you know, nature deficit disorder is a little phrase that it just breaks my heart that we, we even have a phrase for that because, you know, having access to nature is just everyone’s human right.

And sadly, you know, many children and even adults, they, they’re actually not having. Any exposure to it, um, throughout their days. And then, you know, that can sadly even turn into a whole life. So can you just kind of talk about that general theme and how you know, it, it is something like we were saying that we need to, um, you know, kinda work to preserve and hold onto Yeah.

And we actively need to fight for it because society has changed so much now that we, we are all helicopter parents and I mean society overall as a helicopter parent. Generation of grandparents who, you know, back in my day, we didn’t come home till the lights were on, and now the generation of grandparents saying, are you sure your child should be doing that?

Mm-hmm. So we need to remind our grandparents too, that they survived their childhoods and actually thrived in their childhoods. So we need their support as well to let us let our children play in the way that they’re meant to play. We’re seeing less children playing in ways that make their parents gas.

And that’s actually healthy and normal. We shouldn’t, we, we are very worried about our children, far more worried than we ever have been, and yet our children are the most safe they have ever been from crime and from accidents ever. This is the safest generation coming through, and yet we act as though they’re at the most risk.

We make their lives too comfortable. You know, it is too hot, it’s too cold, it’s too wet for them to go outside. And yet. We’re animals, we are creatures. We should be going out in all weather, whether it’s wet or not, we have appropriate clothing. It doesn’t really snow in most of Australia. So our biggest risk is heat.

But we have shade, we have water. We have ways to protect ourselves. So, you know, we get up in the morning and we have a flat bedroom and we get into our car and we get driven to school. And our earlier services where there’s not even undulating surfaces. In early years surfaces anymore. So children don’t know how to navigate uneven, uh, flaws and, and environments.

So this, there’s this accumulation of hovering adults in children’s lives that prevent them from playing in the ways that their bodies know that they should, which is outdoors and free play. Our roaming zones as children have shrunk as well. Since the fifties, you know, again, back in Maday when grandparents were roaming, they roamed for miles and we’re talking six to 10 miles, not kilometers.

And then by the eighties that had halved. And then again, now, now most children aren’t allowed out their front gate. Most children aren’t allowed to play in their front yard. They’re only allowed to play in their backyard. So we have no roaming space. They don’t have third spaces to go and play to play in.

In nature where there’s not a parent hovering close by, and that’s our fault was parents too. You know, how often have we as parents gone, oh, where’s that child’s parent? And they’re going backwards up the slide or whatnot. So we need to really check ourselves as parents and as as society, the nosy neighbors, and let children play how they’re meant to play.

I’ll keep ranting so I’ll stop now. No, I love that. It’s so true. And just reiterating that is just excellent. Um, and we, in our family, we do try to get outside a lot and we’re really good at that. It’s a huge priority, but. Still, their number one memory from 2025 was when the power went out at our house.

And you know, trees were down, like people couldn’t leave the neighborhood and we had no power. And then we kind of like just camped inside and had to light candles and it was really dark for a couple days and it was incredibly hot and it’s just so cute. That literally is what my five-year-old wants to do for her birthday.

And I just think that goes to show like it, you know, that was, a lot of people thought it was the most inconvenient couple days of the end of last year. Mm-hmm. And it was literally the best, you know, through the eyes of a child. It was one of the best experiences. So yeah, it doesn’t have to be.

Complicated to some of these, this, these things that we’re craving as human beings are actually incredibly easy to deliver. So it’s nice that, you know, just to be reminded that with everything we have going on and the over schedules, it really is just about making time for the simple, the simplest of things, which is actually great news for everybody in an incredibly complex world.

Yeah, absolutely. And, and I think being that voice of reason and reminding our children too that I’m doing this because it’s what’s best for your body and your mind. It’s, I’m not trying to talk to you by taking you outside. It’s, you know, and just reminding them, like my son, my youngest one is a water baby, but he forgets, he’s a water baby.

So when we are having a hard day, you know, Maggie Dent’s famous quote, just add water and we do, and I’ll go outside and we’ll take him to the beach. And at the end of the day I said, how are you feeling? Are you feeling better? Yes. That’s because salt water makes everything better in Greece. That’s what doctors prescribe.

When you’re having a bad time or you are not feeling well mentally, is go to the beach, have a swim. In Japan, it’s forest bathing. You know, it’s, we are now prescribing this because we have removed ourselves so far from nature that we forgotten that we are nature and that we need it. We need fresh air, vitamin D movement and, and a nurturing environment to thrive.

Otherwise we aren’t thriving. There’s a reason so many city dwellers are needing to go on antidepressants. It’s not just that they’re stuck in office jobs, but you know when you get up and go to work in the dark and then come home in the dark and you don’t experience sunshine and fresh air and you’re in air conditioning and fluorescent lights and.

Constant noise. It’s not a normal space for a, a mammal to be. We are not meant to live in these environments despite society telling us that we are. So we just need to remember to treat ourselves like a plant. We don’t thrive best indoors. We thrive best outdoors. Absolutely. So that’s kind of the answer to one of the questions that I had, but it was can for the real scientists listening in, um, how can nature actually heal us and help us, and, you know, what research do you pull from at wild Lanes to just, you know, just like really reinforce that concept that, you know, we need, we need nature every day if we can have it.

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, there’s the, our Vitamin D levels are some of the lowest they’ve ever been as a society because we are indoors more than we are outdoors, and it should be the opposite. But again, we are creatures of comfort, despite our comfort not being what’s best for us. In fact, we thrive when we are more uncomfortable, and actually we do better in life.

When we allow ourselves to be uncomfortable and grow that uncomfortable muscle and build more resilience and grit, we’re stronger. Internally as well as externally. So being comfortable is not actually good for humans as well. I think some of the hardest stuff we, we probably come up against is, um, some cultural.

Older midwives, midwives, old wives, tales as well. You know, don’t let that child get wet or don’t let that child get cold. Whereas the science behind that is absolutely, children are allowed to get cold and they’re allowed to get wet and they won’t catch a cold. You know, colds are viral. You can’t catch a cold unless.

You have a virus or you catch the virus. So we remind parents of that. You know, if your child’s coming to wildlands with a green snotty nose, then yes, they probably shouldn’t be getting cold and wet or wet. And then going back into the air conditioning, that doesn’t mean they can’t go out. That means we need to get them dry quickly.

We need to keep them warm. But yeah, and mud as well, you know, there’s quite a few cultures. Um, dirt is, is seen as. Bad parenting or also just unhygienic, because sometimes the countries or the spaces that we have lived in previously or still live in, you know, some cities I don’t wanna eat off the ground in a city.

Mm-hmm. And that’s fair enough. And yet again, as animals, we are meant to interact with dirt. We are meant to get dirt in our fingernails and then eat the dirt because we are meant to have dirt microbiomes in our gut, which then helps our brain. So there’s serotonin. I’ve gotta get this right. Don’t quote me on this, but it’s something along the lines of, I think it’s serotonin inducing microbiomes that help with our joy and our happiness.

So the more dirt you eat, the happier you are. It’s not that simplistic, but it makes being too good is not good for us. Yeah, absolutely. Um. I think that it would be great to come up with just a bit of a top five that we could, you know, share with our families listening in, because I’m sure a lot of people are thinking, right, yep.

This weekend, and, you know, I’m going to, I gotta get back into nature. So sometimes, you know, like going for a walk is obviously a really easy one or a hike, but, um, yeah, together I thought we could sort of just chat about some ideas and I, I. Don’t wanna answer my own question, but I have a couple ideas that I, I can kickstart us with.

Like, one thing is just those awe moments, and it might sound a little cliche, but I know the watching sunrise and sunset. Is hugely one easy. Um, and, and just really a lovely experience. And you know, I know with like these moments of awe, we are having that opportunity to feel gratitude simply that we live on this earth and it’s such a beautiful place and that whatever’s gonna happen in this day is, you know, very, is bigger than just us and what we have going on internally.

So did you wanna kind of expand upon upon that a little bit as you know, one easy thing we can do? Yeah, absolutely. I think those are absolutely the first and best touch points. And I think just a reminder that it doesn’t need to be over complicated or paid for. I did find myself in the early years.

Paying to go to Nature Playgroup so that I would commit. ’cause I was so tired and exhausted and there was always an excuse not to go. So if you like me, then committing to something that’s outdoors does help. Um, but otherwise, I think going out in all weather because. I’ve had some of the most exactly like your, your children said.

The best times that I’ve had have actually been out in some of our more extreme weather. Going out and splashing in muddy puddles with my children. Going out onto the beach for a walk right before a storm is really energizing. And we wouldn’t have got out for another three days if we didn’t get out in that particular moment I can think of as well.

Um, another one is adding friends. If I say to my boys, oh, I really wanna go for a hike. The moaning and complaining that I get is horrendous. But if I say, oh, I wanna go for a hike, and I’ve invited to other families with that, you’re friends with, they’re in and I don’t see them, they don’t complain.

They’re running up ahead, you know, they’re fantastic and it’s so much easier. And I think planning something on a weekend, it’s so easy for us to end up at a birthday party, do our team sport. Go out at night somewhere, but we forget to actually plan something on the weekend. And it, honestly, the beach for nine months of the year here in Queensland, just take your children to the beach.

It’s one of those places that pleases everybody. Everybody gets something out of the beach, even if it’s just a coffee on the way down for the parents, but it’s one of those mutually beneficial spaces. So that would be my thought is. In the, in your head, have three or five mutually beneficial spaces on your list that you know that when you go, everybody’s.

Going to be pleased in some way. Absolutely. And just bringing it back to screens as well, sadly. Um, I’m a real homebody type of person and I love the thought of just being at home and I think it’s gonna be so peaceful. And all four children are gonna be playing a board game together or writing in their nature journals.

But sadly because of these busy lives that we live, like when we. Get home. It is often, you know, this relaxing place where that often leads to screens and then as parents you’re just like, oh, that’s the first thing everyone wants to do is like go to their screen, which is, is annoying. So, um, another idea that I have and I’ve tried is we have these like outdoor kits in our.

In our car. So basically, you know, you can kind of finish off whatever you’re doing and instead of just going home, you know, you can go to the park and actually do the reading that you need to do for your homework there. Um, and you’re prepared ’cause you have like whatever the blanket if you need it or, um, yeah.

And just having kind of those few essentials that might be handy for the outside. Um, just kind of always with you all the time so you don’t have an excuse to, you know, not, not just be able to, you know, step out wherever you are. Yeah, absolutely. And it sounds like we don’t even really need the blanket because also we have to get used to being a little bit more uncomfortable, so that’s even better.

Well, let’s say that, and yet I still had, I had a cheap plastic tub in the boot of my car for probably the first five years of parenting and. Because inevitably we’d go out and if it could be a beautiful, fine, sunny day, but my children would find a puddle or they’d find the water, and you know, your instinct as a parent is to say no, because you end up with the cleaning, you end up with the dirty car, you end up having to deal with the meltdown at the end when they, you know, now I’m cold and I wanna go right now.

That it was so much easier for me to be able to have that tub in the car, spare clothes, a towel, chuck it all in the tub, so my car stay clean. Have a cover for my seats and just say yes, and then they slept well. Absolutely. So, like you said, those extra kits and those tubs make it easier on yourself.

That’s the tip really, isn’t it? How, how can you say yes more? What’s going to help you say yes, reduce the barriers to saying no to going outside? Absolutely. It, it, it is organization. It’s like being well organized Yeah. With figuring out when you’re gonna, you know, do these. Plays outside who you’re gonna organize it with.

So it’s enticing for everyone and how you’re gonna kind of be set up for it. So I think that’s something that, you know, parents can do. And you know, that’s a lot easier than setting up parental controls on an iPad. And the parents get the benefits as well. So I think it’s really lovely to put more energy into, you know, some of this stuff that really is a bit more, a bit more natural for us.

Um, and I don’t wanna leave out. Are teenagers. ’cause this can be a harder age group. I know like wild lanes, you have so many amazing programs for younger kids. And I know a, a little bit older kids as well. But, um, I even have moments when I was a teenager of just like refusing to do things with my family and now I kind of live with the regret of like, I didn’t go on that.

Incredible hike in France. Like that was a mistake. But, um, I think that some of the reading and research that I’ve done is that. It’s really good to have big productive life chats with our teenagers outside and in kind of a neutral, um, you know, outdoor environment, whether it be a park bench or on a walk, and everyone’s more receptive to, you know, these conversations that can be a bit hard sometimes or just really, really big.

So I thought that might be nice to add to the list. And can you. To maybe speak a bit to, you know, the idea of kids who are exposed to nature when they’re children and teenagers. It, it is natural for them to maybe like move to a city or retreat from that, but they often do come back to it, or at least it’s, it has kind of imprinted on their little being.

That would be really lovely to hear, hear about that. I think that word you used imprinted is exactly it. The research shows that the earlier we expose our children to nature, the more likely they are to want to protect it. You can’t really protect it from in the middle of a city, so. Sorry, that’s not true.

But you know, they’re choosing careers that are working in and for the environment. Uh, more likely the earlier you expose ’em to nature and they are more likely to return to visiting nature and going outdoors. You know, we all want what’s best for our children. You know, we sacrifice as parents over and over again trying to do what’s best for our children.

And I think we sometimes forget that it. Not necessarily getting them into the best school. It’s definitely not making them do homework in prep. It’s actually helping them form a deep connection with nature so that when they are feeling lost and lonely or they’re in a new place and they don’t know what to do or where to go, they will always feel safe.

Connected to nature and there they’re going to get their physical activity, their mental health walks. They’re going to meet people who are like-minded, so they’re going to meet other people who are physically active and who seek those healthy activities as well. So don’t forget that the sacrifices you make on those cold and wet and hot days, getting them outside, they will come back.

They are imprinted and they will benefit not just your children, but also the planet. You know you by exposing your children. Babies, you are helping them connect and protect this planet for them and their children. So it’s, it’s a beautiful cycle. I just wanna add on the teens as well. I think so often in our society as well, vacations and holidays, we automatically think for teens are we wanna do something that they’ll really like.

So we should get a nice apartment and we should go do some fun things like time zone and theme parks. And they’re great. Don’t get me wrong, they’re, they’re great holidays. But camping with teenagers, particularly when the weather comes across, it’s again, resilience, it’s grit. It’s those really great talks around the campfire that you do not get talks like those anywhere else.

You know, you’ve got beach days and, and hikes and just being immersed in nature. The research again shows that holidays in nature versus holidays not in nature, are less stressful for everybody. So while setting up a tent. It’s a pain in the butt once it’s set up. Generally, uh, everybody actually feels better so.

That’s a great idea. Yep, absolutely. That’s so good. And plus, by the time they’re teenagers, they can help with the camping process so that it’s, it’s easier for everybody. And again, add friends. It’s so much cheaper to add a friend camping than it is to, you know. Yes. We’ll. You know, bring a friend on a holiday, you might need to get another room, but tent, you know, throw another tent on a campsite.

It’s much easier and it’s more fun. Sleepovers and tents are far more fun for teenagers. Oh, absolutely. No, that’s great advice. Well, um, just in the nature of time, I feel like we could keep talking about this for hours and hours, but especially the international, um. Side of things. It’s so fun to talk about the different countries around the world and how different cultures are doing things a little bit differently from us, so maybe another time we can tap more into that.

But for today, that has been absolutely excellent and really inspiring and helpful to so many parents that are listening in and now can hopefully make a little bit of an effort to get outside. Just a bit more and enjoy the beautiful Australian winter season, which is not so wintry, and yeah, definitely one of our best.

So thank you, Nikki. Absolute pleasure. Thanks so much for having me. Thank you. Bye-bye.